The date is set in the proposal, before anyone has seen the scope
Dates reach project managers, designers and analysts already fixed. Estimates given as a range at proposal stage are quoted as one date, and the lower end is the one that is picked. Requirements are first seen days or weeks after signing.
“I get a date and a budget and I work backwards.”Project manager, 9 years in role
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“I get a date and a budget and I work backwards.”
Project manager, 9 years in role
Open the conversation
LontraTo start, think of the last project of yours that went past its date. What happened?
Project managerP-17, the claims portal. It was signed in January with a delivery date of 30 April. We didn't see the real requirements until the second week of discovery, and by then it was obvious it was a bigger job than the proposal said. But the date was already in the contract.
LontraWho set the date?
Project managerSales and the business owner, with the client, before I was on it. I get a date and a budget and I work backwards.
LontraHow often does a project reach you that way, with the date already fixed?
Project managerMost of them. Seven in ten of mine, I'd say.
LontraWhen you can see the date won't hold, what do you do?
Project managerTalk to the client early and re-plan. We re-plan quite a lot, and I think that's the honest thing to do. What gets squeezed is testing, every time, because it's the last block.
LontraHow many of your projects land on time?
Project managerNot many slip, really. Nine in ten land on time.
LontraYou said P-17 was re-planned. Which date do you count when you say nine in ten land on time?
Project managerThe last one agreed. Not the first. Put like that, the first date and the last date aren't the same for half of mine. I've never counted against the first.
LontraWhat does a re-plan cost?
Project managerA week of my time, a steering meeting and some of the client's patience. And then the team has to be re-booked, which is where it gets messy, because by then people are already on the next thing.
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“I give a range, say 12 to 20 weeks, and by the time it's in the proposal it's a date.”
Senior developer, 8 years with the company
Open the conversation
LontraWhat was the last time your work got stuck behind something?
Senior developerWednesday. I'm on three projects. Another client's live system went down and I'm the only one who knows that module. That's a day gone, and nobody re-planned the project I was meant to be on.
LontraHow many projects are you booked on in a normal week?
Senior developerOfficially three. In practice it's three plus whatever fires.
LontraWhen you're asked how long something will take, how does that go?
Senior developerAt proposal stage I get two days to read a forty-page document and say how long. I give a range, say 12 to 20 weeks, and by the time it's in the proposal it's a date. By the time it reaches me it's a date with a client's name on it.
LontraWhat happens to the range?
Senior developerThe 12 gets picked.
LontraHow do changes to the scope reach you?
Senior developerA chat message from the PM or the analyst. 'Quick one,' no ticket. By Friday I've done four quick ones.
LontraAnd when the build runs over, what happens to testing?
Senior developerTest starts after build, go-live doesn't move, so test shrinks. I've never seen it the other way round.
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“Sales asks me for design estimates in the corridor. Ten minutes, no brief, and it ends up as a line in the plan.”
UX designer, 4 years in role
Open the conversation
LontraWhere does design sit in a project timeline?
UX designerAt the front, in theory. Two weeks planned. In real life it's four, because the client changes their mind about the brief and then sign-off sits with someone who's away.
LontraHow long does client sign-off take?
UX designerAnywhere between two days and three weeks. Nobody puts an end date on it. In the plan it's one day.
LontraWhat happens in the plan when it takes three weeks?
UX designerDevelopment starts without it. Then they build things and I only find out in review that it doesn't match.
LontraHow many projects are you on at the moment?
UX designerFive. I do the screens for all of them and each project manager thinks I'm theirs.
LontraHow do you get asked how long design will take?
UX designerSales asks me for design estimates in the corridor. Ten minutes, no brief, and it ends up as a line in the plan.
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“The client wants a date. They won't sign without one.”
Business owner, client accounts, 6 years in role
Open the conversation
LontraWalk me through how a delivery date gets set on a new client project.
Business ownerThe client wants a date. They won't sign without one. I ask delivery for a range, take the lower end plus a bit, and put one date in the proposal.
LontraWhat do you tell the client about that date?
Business ownerI tell them it's an estimate. They hear a date.
LontraWhat happens when the requirements turn out bigger than the proposal?
Business ownerThat's a change request, in theory. In practice the client says it's what they meant all along and I'm trying to keep the relationship. I'll say yes to small things and mention it to the project manager later.
LontraHow much later is later?
Business ownerOften after the fact. I'm not proud of that, but it's how it goes.
LontraWould you set the date differently if you could?
Business ownerI'd love to quote after discovery. But clients won't wait six weeks for a quote and our competitors give a date on day one.
LontraHow much slack goes into a date?
Business ownerNo rule. About ten per cent, if I think of it. I've never seen what other deals get, and nobody tracks it.
